It's 11:30 p.m. This has been on the Web 18 hours.UPDATE:
We should have called Strunk & White, or at least gotten off our asses to get our copy off the shelf, before invoking the two Cornellians. Indeed, The Elements of Style says to always use " 's " after a singular possessive proper noun.
However, the AP Stylebook, under the "singular proper names ending in S" section of "possessives," says this: "Use only an apostrophe. Achilles' heel, Agnes' book, Ceres' rites, etc.
This would seem to be the rare case where the stylebook and The Elements of Style disagree. We could have easily made the same mistake.
Fucking brilliant. This baby deserves inclusion on CJR's joke page.
ReplyDeleteOr you can always enjoy the TL web poll that lists the wrong fucking teams in the super bowl.
ReplyDeletehttp://forums.timesleader.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=kr-tlgennews&msg=2540.1&ctx=0
Must be shovel ware, it was wrong in print too
ReplyDeleteThey just want to make sure you know it's plural. The alternative would be Kocis's's, just for a little more emphasis ("Hey, this time we really mean it").
ReplyDeleteSadly, the Voice got it right, meaning someone at the Times inserted the error.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.citizensvoice.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=17775451&BRD=2259&PAG=461&dept_id=455154&rfi=6
Beautiful! Wonder if it was fat ass Chris Kelly's fuck up. Let's have another one of your boring ass colums, Kelly. I need to get some sleep. Or better yet, have Borys write one of his third-grade columns. I need to sleep.
ReplyDeleteLast time I checked Kelly wasn't writing headlines.
ReplyDeleteWhat am I missing here? The rule is Form the possessive singular of nouns by adding 's... follow the rule whatever the final consonant, ths write: "Charles's friend... Burns's poems..." etc.
ReplyDeleteI checked the AP Stylebook and, for this issue, it refers us to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary. So, off to the dictionary I went.
ReplyDelete"The possessive of plural nouns ending in an s or z sound is usually formed by adding only an apostrole ("birds' migrations"). The possessive of irregular plurals is formed by adding -'s ("Douglas's crimes, Degas's drawings").
So I guess it's "Kocis's neighbors," rather than "Kocis' neighbors."
I'd have thought otherwise. Well, dip me in chocolate and serve me up for dessert.
Here's an idea, maybe people should have at least some idea what they're talking about before they post this stuff... but I guess that would be a first for this site.
ReplyDeleteI don't know what style guides you all are looking at, but I consulted the 2005 book's punctuation guide. It's quite clear TT fucked up. Here is the entry for SINGLE PROPER NAMES ENDING IN S: Use only an apostrophe: Achilles' heel, Agnes' book, Ceres' rights, Descartes' theories, Dickens' novels...
ReplyDeleteI don't think I need to go on anymore. If you need further proof, observe that the TT corrected the error on its Web site in the headline at least, though not in the body of the story.
http://www.thetimes-tribune.com/site/index.cfm?newsid=17775401&BRD=2185&PAG=461&dept_id=590572&rfi=8
I'm kind of surprised by all the confusion over this.
I believe the title of this is "Calling Strunk & White."
ReplyDeleteStrunk & White clearly says:
"Form the possessive singular of nouns by adding 's... follow the rule whatever the final consonant, ths write: Charles's friend... Burns's poems..." etc.
Other reference books may vary. But to make stupid remarks about the improper use of the 's in this headline is to claim Strunk & White is incorrect.
See the clarification on the main post. In short, Strunk & White says use the S. The AP Stylebook says not to. We could have made the same mistake.
ReplyDeleteBut at most newspapers, you follow AP style over Strunk & White
ReplyDeleteThat's true. But relying on Strunk & White isn't exactly relying on the Old Forge School District Manual of Style. We assumed Strunk & White would never steer us wrong.
ReplyDeleteThey didn't exactly steer the headline writer 'wrong' in this case. Just steered to incorrect style.
Does anyone suspect, as I do, that there is an evolution in style usage here? That happens in language and maybe we're in the middle of it. Which way it goes will be something our grandchildren will tell us. Maybe, S&W (not the WB restaurant) and AP will end up agreeing that it will be 's added for all, or just s' for all.
ReplyDeleteAs Stan Freberg said, in his history of the USA, as he complained about "the purfuit of happineff,": "All your S's look like F's."
While you've all been ruminating over the correct possessive for someone whose name ends in "s," you've completely missed the way the writer used the incorrect plural for the neighbors.
ReplyDeleteMore than one Parsons would be "the Parsonses" not "the Parsons."
My college English teacher used to say, "When in doubt, write around it."
ReplyDeleteHe was very sociable before then, the Parsons recalled.
He held particular fondness for his mother, father and sister, the Parsons said.
"...Mrs. Parsons recalled."
"...Mr. Parsons said."
:)
(Howcum my posts were changed to anonymous? New policy here?)
-TC